ADJOURNMENT SODIUM VALPROATE GOVERNMENT SUPPORT
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a permanently lower rate of 10% for professional 10% of VAT for professional hairdressing, barbering, beauty, spa and aesthetics services, and the petitioners remainet cetera
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petition hair and beauty sector
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The question is that this House do now adjourn.
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Smith.
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and as you are aware, it's not the first time that I
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I had an adjournment debate on the issue of sodium valproate in my 11 and a bit years as a Member of Parliament.here. This continues to be an issue which affects so many and for which justice still feels so far away.
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I don't intend to spend much time given the history of this
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basing the topic of going through the history of the drug, which has been used to treat epilepsy and bipolardisorder since the early 1970s, but I will briefly, for the benefit of anyone who's perhaps tuning in for the first time,
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for the brief facts of what happened. The drug is a teratogenic which was known to be teratogenic from the time it was first licensed andDespite this, doctors were initially advised that the risk did not justify, and I quote
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by discouraging a woman who needs anticonvulsant treatment from having a child ora satisfactory drug regime when the epilepsy is well controlled. And the result of that
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has been playing catch-up ever since, with the valproate pregnancy prevention programme only being launched
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Q in that pregnancy prevention plan.
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It's um it's difficult to calculate the number of children that have been exposed to valproate in utero since its 1973 licence.
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The patient safety commissioner has made an estimate of around 14,0over the period from 1972 to 2017 in England. Diagnosis often gets picked up when clinicians orin some cases parents recognise
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at facial dysmorphic features
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weak muscles, visual problems, hearing difficulties, difficulties with balance, social anxiety, low
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energy, heightened sensitivity to noise and difficulties in regulating emotions. But one of the biggest health conditions facing people with fetal valproate spectrum disorderis autism, um, and but also a significant number will also have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, ADHD, dyspraxia, sensory processinglearning disorder and epilepsy.
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It can affect children in very different ways. In some of the most severe cases, and I know thehon. Gentleman's got a constituent who's very severely affected. The individual can end up bedbound and very severely
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and it may be more of an issue with the autism and sensory processing.I I I give way.
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I thank the hon. Member for giving way and thank her for introducing this long-awaited debate. My constituent
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paralysed
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she hasn't just mentioned. And I thinkThe problem here is that the court case which
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established to try and get recompense for those victims
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Unfortunately, although commitments have been made time and time again to help those people, these mothers are now coming to the advanced end of their lives and thechildren they've supported will desperately support when their lives end. Does she think thereneed for now
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had legal aid withdrawn back some 20 years ago.
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I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising his constituent Karen's case with her daughter Bridget and
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landscape
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has been going on for so long, you know, the drug first licensed in the 1970s inevitably means that the the babies that were harmed are no longer babies, they're not even children. They're
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laid out, I believe, sooner rather than later because it's already frankly been too long. Turning
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address from the government for the families that are affected by themanagement administration has been conclusively made.
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Prime Minister Theresa May found that the state and manufacturers have an ethical responsibility to provide ex gratia
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who have experienced avoidable damage. These payments should be made to cover costs such as travel to medical appointments,
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to cover care. And I pay tribute to the former Prime Minister for her work
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payments where a parent has to stop
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on this issue because she really was a campaigner on this and I give way to my noble friend. I thank the noble member for giving way and I have constituents alsoaffected by
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issue, and does she agree with me that it's a double
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Fight to get
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remission and change in the the prescription of sodium valproate and then have had to fight again toget compensation for the very real damage caused.
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I would totally agree with my hon. Friend, but I'd go further still.
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When you have a child with additional needs, the last thing you need is to be fighting a national campaign for justice. You already have enough on your plate trying tocope with your child and make sure your child's accessing the support that they need without having to run a national campaign, but that's been the reality.for many of these parents, primarily mothers, who have children that have been harmed by valproate, that is exactly what they've had to go on and do.
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I'm so to go back to my points around the the history of the reviews that have been done into this scandal.The, um, back in 2022, the, the then Conservative government initially rejected the recommendation that I've just set out.
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However, in 2022 it did have a change of heart by the then Health Minister
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Maria Caulfield she was tasked the patient safety commissioner.
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to provide options for financialAnd that felt like a real step forward for the campaign at that point. And the commissioner produced the huge report in February 2024.And it reiterated what we already know, which is that the government has a responsibility to create an ex gratia redress scheme providingfinancial and non-financial redress for those harmed by Valpruate.The Hughes report recommended that the government should create a two-stage
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The Question is that this House do now adjourn.Before I call the hon. Member again, I would just like to say what a pleasure it is to see the Clark of the House in his position for his last ever.Cat Smith.
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Hughes report recommended that the government should create a two-stage financial
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Should we addresscomprising of interim scheme and main scheme with the interim payment commencing in 2025 and for those
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paying attention will realize that that's somewhat late now. She further recommended that these payments should be made by an independent body.which commands the confidence of patients, and I think that point is particularly important to make to the Minister.
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For the patients that have been harmed have lost so much confidence that the importance of the independence of the body that would administer thiswould be able to give those patients confidence that it was being done properly.
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So, where are we today?
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So we've had both the Cummings review and the Hughes report stressing the need for speed when responding toissue, and that is to a large extent, as my right hon. Friend has set out, due to the time and nature of the scandal.We now have a cohort of adults with fetal valproate spectrum disorder whose parents are increasingly finding it difficult to support their needs due to their own health and care requirements.
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And sadly, we're now over two years on from the latter and the Government has yet to formally respond to it.
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clear recommendation that interim payments should have commenced last year.
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The previous Secretary of State for Health, the Member for Northwood, did do a television interview with ITV Granada's Lisa McNally inFebruary of this year, in which he indicated that he wanted to commence compensation payments before the end of this Parliament.So it's therefore troubling that in answers to parliamentary questions from myself and colleagues that the government's line today remains
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Decision to provide compensation has not yet been made. And I
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I just want to say, Madam Deputy Speaker, in response to the written parliamentary questions that myself and colleagues have been putting in, it is feeling
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frustrating that it feels like when ministers see a written parliamentary question come in and see the word prorogue, there's almost a stock answer that gets lifted
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as members
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and that gets given to us as members, and speaking to some of the victims
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Again and again, we really do need to make progress with this issue.
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So does the minister understand the considerable distress such as uncertainty and inconsistency causes? SoIt will she today make unequivocally make clear that the government accepts the case for financial redress for the victims of sodium valproate and put in place a clear time
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for delivering that financial redress.
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And if the Minister needs any more persuading, I know that she's a good minister and I know that she'll
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see the screening of Moms v. Big Pharma, which is produced by the same makers as the Post Office scandal.It really does show the the human side and the human cost to this scandal for so many families, some of whom are in the the gallery here.tonight and it's really just sort of the perspective of basically two Lancashire mums that have absolutely had enough and are fighting for justice.I know one thing about Lancashire women is that when we've got our teeth into something, we do tend to stick at it and we willBut particularly for Janet Williams who's been campaigning since the justice since 1996, it really is time that justice
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was brought forward for these victims.
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In addition to the conversations I've had with victims of the scandal, I've also heard concerns raised by those living in Scotland, Wales,
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the nature of the the health being devolved to those
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But the reality is, is whilst health is a devolved matter, the regulations of human medicines and medicalproducts does remain reserved and
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and non-financial redress. The government has previously put in place UK-wide schemes for redress such as on infected blood and I know the minister is well aware of that.So will the Government therefore commit to working closely with victims from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?
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I very much thank the noble Lady for giving way and for her
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and the devolved administrations on this matter.
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campaigning on behalf of the victims of this particular scandal. I wondered if she was aware of the report from the Public Accounts Committee making recommendations about
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that there should be independence in the
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It's quick redress for victims in the way she hopes.
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I thank the noble Lady for her intervention there and commend her for the work that she does along with others on thePublic Accounts Committee, and that report is absolutely right to stress the
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independence in order to give confidence to the victims. But
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so a scheme designed with victims because these are families that have already had so much done to them that it's important that when it comes to redressa part of the solution and designing that solution and that's that's part of the process ofThat's part of the justice is that they're no longer having things done to them but are partof designing the solution to resolve things. It would be a pleasure to give way to my hon. Friend.
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Thank you and apologies, Madam Deputy Speaker, for being late to the debate. It caught me somewhat by surprise the early start, butAs she's away and the noble Lady may have touched on this already, the Hughes report.
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is an excellent report and that gave a blueprint for how a redress model could be, you know, put in put in place, right
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to the amounts and how that could, you know, be facilitated. Does my hon. Friend agreeIt's been over two years since the Hughes report. I know there's been a change of government, but this government's been in for a good over twoyears now. Does she agree with me as about time that the government cameaccepted the recommendations of the Hughes report.
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I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention and thank her as well for all the work she's done over a number of years on this issue and she's been aand has the confidence of many of the victims and is very well thought of. I would I would say that I would entirely agree
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There there was many things as well as the redress but also about the non-financial redress in in
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report and as part of that of course now we've got the pilot clinics that are taking place in Manchester and in Newcastle. We have
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putting children and adults that have been affected by valproate
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These are pilots and unlike some of the other clinics, so with Mesh for example, those clinics are permanent clinics and they're able to provide
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psychological support as well. For the those that are victims of valproate, the the clinics are still still in trial, um and we ha- don'tI've had the clinics outside of the north of England and obviously as a north of England MP I'm very glad that the clinics are sort of local to me but the reality is that victims of valproate live rightacross the United Kingdom and the you shouldn't become a postcode lottery of where people can access support.
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So can the Government update the House, perhaps, about whether or not these are going to be made permanent and perhaps expanded to cover a widerrather than just the north of England. And finally, I
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Would the Minister commit to meeting with me and victims, especially those from the campaign organisation INFACT, to discuss in detail the Government
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long-term intentions in this area, because many of these victims feel like they've been in the dark for an awful long time about what's happening.
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Labour's we've been in government here since 2024 and I think the time has come whenThe Vic can no longer be dragged and justice needs to be done, redress needs to be put in place and the families that have been affected areno less than that.
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Mr Speaker, I'm so glad you're in the chair tonight because you too have been a stalwart supporter of these victims and I knowyou too are very fondly thought of especially by those in the public gallery
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for your support on this and I'm really grateful that there has been interventions from both sides becausetruly is an issue which cuts across party politics because regardless of what colour rosette one wearscannot fail to see the injustice that has been done to these families, and I personally would like to see it be a Labour government that delivered this redress.these victims. You know, this scandal's been going on since the 1970s. The time has passed for just talking about this. We need to start acting and doing things.
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The families that have been affected are frankly owed nothing less, and I
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In the Minister's reply, she will give them some hope tonight because I'm told that hope is back, so let's make sure that means something by having some hope from the DispatchMinister, Dame Diana Johnson.
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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and can I also say how nice it is to see the Clark of the House
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in this place and I want to pay tribute to his very long service in this place and wish him the very
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I also, of course, want to start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member forand Wire on securing this important debate and thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to the
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sensitive and important topic. We've had the Member for Blaydon and Consett, my hon. Friend for Shipley,my hon. Friend for Washington and Gateshead South and the hon. Gentleman for Harrow East, all making very important contributions, and again I would also like to reference
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Madam Deputy Speaker, I know you're a long-standingsupporter of this
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for many, many years on behalf of her constituent, Janet
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issue as well. And I know that my hon. Friend has been working tirelessly for many, many
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campaigners and the families, including Emma
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is on behalf of her constituent
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who my hon. Friend referred to, and to make sure that women's and families' voices are
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severance of women, and there's clear perseverance here indeed, and I have been very moved by the stories that I'veboth before I came into office, and the more I look into this matter, I think the more tragic it appearsto be, and I will be watching that television programme on the 9th of November which my hon. Friendreferred to. Now, as my hon. Friend would expect, sincethe Minister for Public Health and Patient Safety. I have been briefed by officials on the Hughes report and the progress that wemade so far. Of course, I am very pleased to meet with my hon.
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and the families affected. Of course I'm happy to do that. I'm also very determined to make
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for Glasgow South West
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established a direct line with the patient safety commissioner to start to drive this work forward.
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And I think that was the right approach and I look forward to meeting Professor Hughes shortly.
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I am conscious that it has been more than two years since Professor Hughes published her report, and more than
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been profoundly changed. Their voice must be heard as we address the
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five years since the independent
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issues with I think the urgency that is demanded. We must
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It took several months to get a response. He wrote again to Number 10 in March this year. I wrote to the Health Secretary
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Yeah, happy to, yes.
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July this year, there's been no responses and the response that Matthew did receive for someone with
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Welcome the hope that a new Labour government brought.
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on this issue, it is really essential that we we deliver for them.
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Of course, I will I will take that away. And can I just say as a Minister, I've made it very clear that we should respond in atimely way to obviously to Members of Parliament but in other correspondence as well.and in a way that people can understand what is being said to them. So I absolutely take that
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So, just moving on, I think I just want to make it clear that we are determined to build a system that listens, that hears and that will act.And we need to do that with speed, compassion and proportionality. Madam Deputy Speaker,
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As someone who has fought hard for the compensation that was due to the victims of the infected blood scandal, I fully understand theof feeling on this matter and I can also appreciate the frustrations of the families and the campaigners.
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This is a complex and sensitive issue and it does require careful coordination across government.
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The support we offer to those who have suffered profound harm must be meaningful and responsive to their needs.
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The government is clear that those affected have already waited far too long.
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For answers. On the issue of financial address, while a decision has not yet been taken to provide financial
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My priority is to drive these discussions forward with
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urgency while ensuring that any decisions we take are underpinned by a thorough
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of the available options and continue to engage across government. Our discussion so4 have considered the scope, the affordability and the practical challenges of a redress scheme.
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Yes, happy to.
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address
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I do want to just say a few words about non-financial.
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seek some clarity because she's said that the decision has not yet been madeThe previous Secretary of State for Health told
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ITV the the financial redress would be he was expecting it to be at the end of this Parliament, so could you just clarifyThat seems inconsistent to me.
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My understanding of what the previous Secretary of State said was that he wanted to see progress within this Parliament. I'mbe mindful of the recommendations of the Hughes Report which deal which set out clear
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recommendations around redress and I've just tried to set out that's the theand you I'm pursuing with some speed to look at what the options are. So I hope that answers the the hon. my hon.
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Yes, I will do that.
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I thank the Minister for giving way and I know from her work in the past that she would be very conscious of the issues here.But can I just say, two years on from the Hughes report, which was very clear, we need to be acting. This is an important
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tissue and it feels like a group of women primarilyare being left to one side to wait their turn or wait their time. Can the MinisterA show me that she
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I can fully understand and appreciate the frustration because it has been two years since the report was published. I will do my very best.know that my predecessor who's in her place was also
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looking at what more we could do to speed matters up and I will give my undertaking to this House that I will do my very
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way and I'm very happy toOne last brief intervention, if I may. I know my hon. Friend is best placed with her experience of leading the contaminated
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to be now in this position to deliver for all of these victims from Mesh, Valerate and maybeas well, although that wasn't in
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The Hughes report. One other thing if I may add to her list is around payments from Bigto the health sector. They really do have to be disclosed. They're at the moment they're ambiguous, misleading. There's lump sum payments that hide
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multitude of payments and does my hon. Friend agree with me
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There's really time for the government to enact a statutoryapproach to payment transparency in the health sectorWell, I'm very happy to discuss that with my my hon. Friend and see what we can do, but I'm I'm very
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Can I just deal with this non-financial redress point because I think it's important?is also recognised that people do need support now and the department is working with theto put in place a range of measures to support
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and the safe prescribing of sodium valproate. In February, on that second anniversary of the Hughes report,my hon. Friend the Minister of State for Health set out how the department is addressing their needs.
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the women and the families alongside action to
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by improving the clinical services and treatment that patients receive, commissioning further research,initiating long-term preventative measures. So I just wanted to update colleagues on those initiatives. First of all, onimprovements to services and treatment. Since18 the number of women that have been prescribed sodium valproate has gone down, although therea cohort who have already been
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system is shaped around their
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and require specific treatment. We must ensure that our healthcare
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and their experiences. Shortly after the government came into office, NHS England began operating the Fetal Exposure to
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pilot pilot service in hospitals in Manchester and Newcastle which my hon. Friend referredThis the project is providing multidisciplinary assessments, diagnosis and treatment plan
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and its findings will inform the way we do this at a national level. The proposed extension
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Project includes setting up a thirdside and an independent evaluation of the pilot because we shouldn't be marking our own homework. This should give us the evidence we needdetermine whether a nationally commissioned service could be implemented across
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This approach balances the need to improve support for affected individuals and families with the re
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to ensure that any future national service is evidence-based, clinically effective and financially
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sustainable
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I thanks the Minister for giving way. It's good news that she's considering a national proposal. Will she undertake to have a meeting with the long-serving victims of this scandal
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Who's been in such desperate times?
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Of course I will. Of course that that would be something I would be very interested in doing and learning more. So yes, absolutely. And I'm sure my office will be in touch with the hon. Gentleman about that.I just now want to just deal with the the the two points I was talking about. So, on theand update on research and development. We are working with clinicians from the pilot and
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I think she will learn quite a lot from such a meeting.
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to see how we can improve the services available to affected patients, and finally on
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NHS England and the Medicines and Health Carey
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Products regulatory agency have introduced strict measures to minimizeoperate exposure during
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including pregnancy prevention programs and prescribing controls and specialist
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for women who may become pregnant while taking the medication. So, Madam Deputy Speaker,
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Let me close by again paying tribute to all those families whose lives have been changed for
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by sodium valproate and also the other measures the other issues that were set out in the Hughes report aroundpelvic mesh too. I hope I've made clear this afternoon how determined we are to respond to the Hughes report with the urgency and thepassion that those families absolutely deserve.
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